Newsletter January 2011
Dear Friends,
It is with great hopes that this newsletter is coming to you from a different support platform and a far clearer format.
Such changes have not been easy. I am still working on the ‘perfection’ of the website and I try to add new articles and books almost daily. We continue to move our books to the e-book format and I expect that my last book, My Kingdom Come, will be available in e-book format later this month.
I have also made arrangements to begin broadcasting a regular Web/radio program by early February, eventually moving that to one where you can call in and discuss the many issues we are facing in the church today. The sessions will be archived and down-loadable.
We have recently joined with an organization that deals with expansion of web presence and expect to see our web activity grow by leaps and bounds. That means we will be reaching many more people lost in spiritual darkness and that means many more people will get to go to heaven.
On a personal note, I continue to pray for each and every prayer need you send in. Never stop. Never give up. Never forget we have a God who hears and answers prayer. I know this in my own life. I have been battling health issues for several years and today feel great and twenty years younger. My own healing came when Carol and I increased our Bible reading time and our prayer times.
The ministry is in full swing this month and we work hard to keep up. I get so many emails; it is difficult to answer them all in a timely fashion. Please understand. I do read every one the moment it pops up and I do pray for you.
Many emails end up in the spam files because you fail to put down a subject or use words that the spam catcher will pull aside. Be careful. Be clear, so I do get the email.
Please pray about sending in a special gift today. It is easy to do and so vitally needed. You can go to our website and click the Donate button or send a gift to us via PayPal to
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, or you can call our order/donation number at 1-800-861-9888...or simply mail in a check.
We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 1 Thess 1:2-3 KJV
Your brother in Christ,
Ed Decker
You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter and our WordPress Blog to name a few new venues
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Remember my blog article
The Mormon Art of Child Stealing?
http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/the-mormon-art-of-child-stealing
Here again, we see the pain that goes with this terrible Act of Deception
Dear Ed,
Our daughter joined and was baptized this weekend into the LDS church. Her Dad and I are devastated! Is there any thing we can say or do together to see the real truth? Her best friend is a Mormon and the temptation was too powerful to become like her. We should have never let the wolves in sheep's clothing into our home. She loves the Lord and just wants a closer walk with him, but she is being deceived. Please help with any suggestions, of course we pray for the scales to be lifted from her eyes.
My Response
Dear Mother, I get several such emails each week about the Mormon's stealing away young people from their families. Let's talk about yours...
This issue with your daughter is a very common form of Mormon conversion technique and they train their people to go after young and vulnerable youth. Highly successful. If you had put up a bigger fight, they would have even had your daughter leave home and move in with an LDS family. The Mormon 'best friend' is a key approach and they are trained to go after friends.. Does this friend live in the same 'Ward' boundaries? If not, they will have to go to separate church buildings/programs.
Baptizing a child still living at home with Christian parents unaware of the event is standard operating procedure for them. I call it child stealing.
The good news is that they do all the love bombing and give all the special attention up front and after about 3 months, she is on her own and they are out going after the ' next one.' then the new convert sits and starts hearing the real doctrine seeping out and over half leave the church within the first six months ..another group leave within the next six months.. esp. those who have strong Christian families..
There is a wonderful, soft approach DVD look at Mormonism from the Christian view call Jesus or Joseph.. I will send you a free copy if you send in an address.
You should ask your daughter to sit with you and your husband and view the DVD together.. No Mormon best friend or Missionaries; just your own family.. private viewing.. no lecturing from you or dad.. just let the DVD do its work.. planting seeds at the least.
Special Announcement
To Moroni with Love
The Question of Freemasonry
Understanding Islam: The Mystery Religion
Are all available now in e-Book Format at:
The God Makers and
Fast facts on False Teaching
Decker’s Complete Handbook on Mormonism
Denial is a river in Utah
I have been following a WordPress Blog group for a while and listening in to the conversations as a wide diversity of Mormons and Christians of every persuasion work around the issues of Mormonism and Christian Orthodoxy. For the most part, I am a quiet observer, watching as each of a vast variety of viewpoints is expressed. It has been a good learning experience.
Lately, I have been drawn into a discussion titled Denial is a River in Utah. The theme has been that Mormons have been picking and choosing from the many odd LDS doctrines for years and personally ignoring or denying those that do not sit well with them.
It is a phenomenon that says, for example, “But, that’s Ok and I can still be a good Mormon if I don’t believe that we can become gods…probably this was never an official doctrine, anyway... Just some leader’s personal idea.”
You may want to check out the blog yourself at: LDS & Evangelical Conversations : A discussion of differences and similarities between Mormonism and Evangelical Christianity: http://ldstalk.wordpress.com/
The blog Thread I have been following lately is
Here is the post I placed on this blog on January 4th.
The river of Denial has a lot of flotsam piling up along its banks.
I have been gratefully following this extremely active and thought provoking thread, really impressed with much of what is said and the openness and honest reflection by those who have been part of the conversation here.
I even chuckled a bit when I was quoted as a source of some unusual LDS doctrine that was later found to have come from the Achieving Celestial Marriage Manual. Odd that the very same three points referenced are also contained in the animation portion of the God Makers film/video/DVD/ and continual You-tube favorite. Could be we used the same proof sources.
The point I want to make here is that I grow weary of the vitriolic flack I get when I write something about some odd/non-biblical doctrine of Mormonism that takes Mormonism out of the realm of Christian Orthodoxy. My documentation and LDS-only references are carefully studied to be sure I am on strong legal grounds in what I say. I have often offered to legally document any questionable statement or source. With well over a hundred articles on Mormonism on the Saints alive website, the critical response is somewhere like one in two hundred.
Every one of the LDS quotes are from LDS produced material, LDS Prophets speaking from the pulpit, LDS General Authorities in spoken or written word, either in LDS meetings or LDS published books.
It is a fool’s comment to say, “Well, Elder XX, was speaking/writing his personal thoughts and that is not the church position.” Then I have to ask, “Is Elder X, an Apostle of the Lord, then a liar or false teacher?”
If so, Ex-communicate him for lying to a trusting people, if not a liar, then it is part of the LDS doctrine. A leader has spoken.. A leader who supposedly receives revelation from God...
In one example, the book I co-authored with Christian apologist, Dave Hunt, The Godmakers, went through a lengthy edit process by the publisher who pulled several things that could be considered open to litigation. They then sent the manuscript to a legal firm to determine that the book and all its more than a thousand references could stand up in as court of law, even in Utah. Only then was it published.
So, let me get to the point I was chewing over in my mind at 3 AM this morning, instead of sleeping. I agree fully that well over half [my guess ..not documentable] of all Mormons have picked and chosen what parts of the LDS “whole” they will carry as their own personal Mormonism .
This has been the case for over thirty years of my so-called “Ant-Mormonism.” Talking about the errors and changes in the Book of Mormon or the scores of failed prophecies by Joseph Smith is a total waste of time when talking to a convert who has seen a son or daughter lifted up out of a wasted life and now happily living a clean, productive life.
But, here is the rub. You can pick and chose what doctrines you want, go to the temple once or twice and put its steps to godhood and exaltation onto some private giggle box for cute and quaint things we do as Mormons, but it is still a core doctrine of Mormonism.
The doctrinal flotsam banging along the river of denial is still part of the whole that makes up the reality of true LDS dogma and unless the Prophet/ First Presidency publically renounce it, it is still LDS doctrine. Pick out what you can live with along that shoreline, but you cannot change the DNA of the whole, no matter how good it feels.
Further, we critics, especially those of us who ran along that same river of denial with you for our own years of picking and choosing, have every right to pick whatever part of the Mormon experience we want to use in demonstrating the biblical unorthodoxy of the LDS brand of pseudo-Christianity.
For twenty years, I worked with a mindset that said I, too, could someday become a god. It finally came to the day when I discovered there was only one God and there were no openings for any others that my eyes opened to the reality that I was being a foolish man to believe such a thing.
Thank you for letting me post this today.
Ed Decker
Correspondence with a Returned Missionary
His First e-mail
Hi Mr. Decker,
I will admit, it is pretty strange to actually be speaking with you. I have heard about you for years. I have read about you since I was 17 years old. I have watched God Makers 1 and 2 on my mission with various investigators who wanted to ask questions about what was in the videos.
I don't have a desire to get into a bible battle, as I'm sure that you have had hundreds, if not thousands of people try to debate you. I'd imagine the constant debate has become quite monotonous to you. I served my mission in Colorado, in what they call, "the Evangelical Vatican." Due to my mission, as well as my anti-LDS extended family, I have very thoroughly investigated anti-LDS writers and doctrine. I am LDS; however, I am not your typical "close-minded" member of the church. I appreciate all opinions on religion and I'd imagine that you would have very strong opinions on certain matters.
I have heard many different stories about the reason for you leaving the LDS Church and choosing to speak out against the church. Although I disagree with some of what you say, out of respect, I'd hate to spread any type of false information about your time in the LDS church.
Ed: I am not now nor have I ever been an angry ex’Mormon who couldn’t live the commandments. I was a Mormon in good standing when I left the church and only after I spent months of research into the doctrines, writings of JS and early leaders, speaking to church leaders, travelling to SLC for answers, did I decide to have my name removed. .
I am husband of 41 years, father of 7, grandfather of 13 and great grandfather of 4. A retired pastor and general old curmudgeon. And I have a number of good friends and family who are still LDS and love me anyhow... me too them
From what I understand, you have served as a stake president and were excommunicated because of adultery. After your time away from the church, you regained your membership in the church and filmed the temple ceremony. After filming the ceremony, it is my understanding that you were excommunicated again. Is that accurate? (I am not trying to get too personal; however, I really do not want to have false information)
Ed: Never was a Stake President.. Only made it to bishopric. Was never ex’d for adultery. Never divorced for it, either. I asked for my name to be removed from the church after I became a born again Christian… see http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/ed-leaves-church.htm . The actual church document is on file at the Ed Decker Collection [#210] at Utah State Univ. Special collections library. Logan Utah.
Never regained membership, never ex’d again.. That story is actually a warp of what happened to a man named Dick Baer. Never filmed the temple ceremony inside any LDS temple.
Another rumor that I have heard is that you have had a meeting with members of the Quorum of the 12 apostles. During the meeting, I was told that you had been declared a "son of perdition" by one of the apostles. Is that true?
Ed: I have met recently with LDS leadership in meetings dealing with “reconciliation” but we prayed and talked... Mark E. Peterson called me a son of perdition at a stake conference in Bellevue WA a year or so after the film came out. But then, I said he was a false Apostle and leader. So, we were even.
Ed: I think I used the following scripture in my statement:
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2 Cor 11:13-15 KJV
I will have more I'd like to ask you, but I would like to first understand where you are coming from before we continue. I'd appreciate your answer to these questions to give me some sort of frame of reference into your upbringing in the LDS church.
Ed: I was raised in the Anglican Church. Joined the LDS Church when I married a Mormon girl I went to High School with. See: http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/edstestimony.htm
Thank you for your response Mr. Decker. If I do not hear back from you for the next couple of days, Happy Thanksgiving.
Evan
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His Next e-mail
Hi Mr. Decker,
I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
Back to where we left off.. You joined the LDS Church because of your first wife is that right?
Ed: Actually, my wife was an inactive Mormon, joining the church at BYU and never attended after she returned home after one year there.
Would you say you believed the doctrine of the church at one point?
Ed: Yes, I believed it ‘insofar’ as I knew the doctrine at that time. As a new member and in the mission field at that time, we didn’t get into much doctrine at church. Definitely nothing about becoming a god.
Or were you "living a lie" because you loved your wife?
Ed: Never
Were you married before or after you joined the church?
Ed: Before. We lived away from our families. I was a YMCA program ‘secretary’ as we were called in those days. Lonely and away from home. The missionaries found us going door to door and after we related that She was a member and I went to college in Logan, they were ‘on us.’ {also, note that we were later married/sealed in the Los Angeles Temple}
Somewhere in here, you missed my divorce. And my supposed excommunication for adultery. Let me just say that I initiated the divorce after 14 years and numerous attempts to change certain things... counseling at the Stake President level etc. The church recommended I divorce her and I did. We both later remarried, she in the church I outside the church. My wife and I have been married for 41 years. My ex has married two more times. I was ex’d at my own insistence.
After you decided to leave the church, what made you decide to go to such great lengths to go against the LDS church?
Ed: It was a process.. We were attending a small neighborhood church and I was challenged there over some LDS doctrine that still hung on and I studied it out and determined the LDS doctrine was non-biblical. I questioned the bishop and other leaders and they had no answers but just got angry.. That set me on a quest to study it all out. And the answers did not draw me back to the church but further away. Then some of my LDS friends began to ask me “why?” That opened many doors to what I considered to be a “calling”.
Is it because you feel a calling to pull people from the church?
Ed: A calling to share biblical truth. It just isn’t the LDS. But I feel like they/you are my people who are lost and I have a roadmap that will help you find ‘the way.’
Is it because of the money associated with book/video purchases?
Ed: That is funny. ALL the $ from the books/films, offerings, honorariums, goes to the ministry and not to me personally. My wife and I are always in the top few donors to the ministry. We have sold property, land, buildings, stock, and given it to the ministry as well as mortgaged our home to pay for the film, the God Makers. My wife worked full time to support our family.
Did someone in the church offend you in a way that you have decided to seek revenge on the church as a whole?
Ed: I don’t call it revenge at all. And no one in the church offended me… and I still have good friends in the church. The Mormon people are generally very good and kind people.
The reason I ask is because it seems that whenever people leave the church, they go against it as much as possible. When people leave other churches, it seems that they leave relatively quietly.
Ed: That’s because the LDS teach it is the only true church on earth.. all the pastors hirelings of Satan.. That gem came right out of the temple ceremony when I was LDS..and was temple ‘worthy.’ Most Christian churches are within the central doctrines of Christianity. They don’t cast off someone who decides for some reason to attend the church down the street.
With the "false prophet : son of perdition" exchange with Elder Peterson, is there any part of you that wonders if you would be considered a Son of Perdition?
Ed: Not even my toe.
Now for a more doctrinally based question... I see on the Saints Alive website that your group believes in the triune nature of God. Again, I do not want to debate bible interpretation, but wouldn't you agree that the trinity was not a doctrine taught by Christ?
Ed: Not at all.. He spoke clearly on the subject. Read my article, The Trinity, http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/the-trinity--mormon-vs-the-bible-view
.
According to my studies, the trinity was introduced during the Council of Nicea... What is your opinion?
Ed: The Council defined it.. but it was a core teaching of the early church and clearly expressed by the apostles. Read what I wrote on the nature of God at: http://www.saintsalive.com/general/character_of_god.htm
Last question for now.. After making the God Makers, the Tanners made a rebuttal book against your claims in The God Makers. Have you read their argument? What do you think of it?
Ed: Actually, they never did that. In fact, they are in a good part of the God Makers film. Jerald Tanner did not like the film, The God Makers II. He took exception to a part of it that was extremely well documented. There was no book, just an article he wrote in his newsletter. Even though I strongly disagreed with him, I do not carry that video/DVD in my ministry. I am in that film as a narrator, and was filmed [as is often the case in film work] without context and had no control over its contents or the editing process, as I have had in numerous other films…
I'll have you know, I am not using this discussion for a church lesson, book, or anything else. I am just interested in another point of view.
Thank you!
His last e-mail January 4th, 2011
Hi Ed -
I want out!!!
How do I resign?
Thanks!
Evan
Ed: Good idea! Delighted to help. I wrote an article on the several ways to resign
and I suggest you look through it and choose the method best suited for you.. let me hear back...
http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/exodus-getting-out-the-right-way
Best to you! Ed
Saints alive in Jesus
P.O. Box 1347
Issaquah WA 98028
www.saintsalive.com
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